Oct. 28, 2021

Writing the (ALMOST) PERFECT Sales Email

Episode 19: Writing the (ALMOST) PERFECT Sales Email with Ryan Lallier
Like so many salespeople, Ryan Lallier fell into the sales world by accident, and a very happy accident it was! Ryan refers to himself as a sales practitioner, and managed to build a business, SalesGevity, through the peak of the COVID-19 pandemic. We’ve brought him on the show today to share the knowledge that he has accumulated about the value of emails through his many years of experience. Emails are such a fundamental element of sales, but unfortunately, due to the pervasiveness of automated content, they have lost a lot of their power. Ryan however, strongly believes in the value of the written word, and has almost perfected the art of creating connection through email. We talk through each part of an email, from the subject line, to the opening lines, the body, and the call to action, and Ryan explains the strategies that he uses to grab the receivers’ attention, establish rapport with them, and ensure that his emails result in a positive reaction. Ryan also has some inspirational words of advice about trusting yourself, and not second guessing what you have to offer!

Key Points From This Episode:

  • The exciting new chapter that Ryan and his wife have recently embarked upon.
  • Ryan shares how he accidentally ended up in the world of sales. 
  • When Ryan founded SalesGevity, and how the experience has been. 
  • Why Ryan advocates for a sales people to move away from technology.
  • Skills that are vital for being proficient in sales. 
  • Examples of email subject lines which will catch the receiver's attention. 
  • The three strategies Ryan utilizes for writing impactful opening lines of emails; geography, commonality, and value. 
  • How Ryan approaches writing the body of an email, and some phrases that he commonly uses.
  • Ryan shares his thought process around calls to action in emails. 
  • An example of what Ryan sees as a good call to action. 
  • How Ryan builds connection over email.
  • The importance of being brave enough to trust yourself. 


“Try to get to a “no” as quickly as possible. If you can get it within one phone call or one email, you’re winning.” — @ryanlallier [0:08:04

“The pendulum is swinging back towards less sequence, less technology, more using your noodle and becoming a fine writer and a stronger communicator.” — @ryanlallier [0:08:22]

“I’m all about humanizing emails. I want people, when they get the email, to know it’s not coming from some automated, robotic, AI driven distributed prospecting machine.” — @ryanlallier [0:20:31]

“My thought process around a call to action is to garner a positive reaction, not carve out 15 minutes of someone's time for some event that may or may not be fruitful for both sides.” — @ryanlallier [0:37:58]

“I’m always seeking ways to connect and be genuine over email. I believe email is not dead, it’s just the current state of affairs and the process is definitely becoming a fossil. We have to switch back to the written word being a much more humanizing event.” — @ryanlallier [0:44:10]

“Don’t hesitate, trust yourself, do it, don’t second guess a thing!” — @ryanlallier [0:51:26]


Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

Ryan Lallier on LinkedIn


Sam Capra on Linkedin

The Sales Samurai B2B Sales Podcast


Title Sponsors:


Speaker 0    00:00:01    Coming to you from Orlando, Florida, Orlando, Florida, and streaming around the world around the world. You're not tuned in to the sales samurai podcast. The only B2B sales podcast, providing unfiltered unapologetic views and tactics directly from the sales trenches. Here's your host, Sam Capra.  
Speaker 1    00:00:30    Welcome to episode 19 of the sales samurai. Thanks for listening. Before we begin, do us a favor, take a moment to subscribe and download on today's show. We're going to be discussing writing the almost perfect sales email, and I have the best guests for you guys today. Ryan Lawler is the founder and operator of sales gravity, which is created based on the 20 plus years of experience. He has as an individual contributor while on route to being a VP of sales, like most he had great years in sales, good years in sales, and then some bad years in sales, all the above helped him create what he likes to call his playbooks Ryan's experience gives him the street credit to offer sound proven formulas for sales enablement. He's hired, trained, and mentored well over a hundred sales reps and has advised close to a thousand Ryan man. Welcome to the show. How are you brother? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me on how are you? I'm living the dream more than why you are living the dream. Don't get me wrong, but you you're operating on very little sleep brand new baby, correct? That's  
Speaker 2    00:01:32    Right. Six weeks old a Saturday.  
Speaker 1    00:01:34    God bless your wife by the way. I mean, that's really who needs all the blessing, dude,  
Speaker 2    00:01:39    Man, she's a warrior. I think I mentioned this to you. Like earlier in the week, I had said that I have this like new level new found respect for women. I mean, I just, they're really tough and uh, I'm very weak as we go through the process of, you know, taking care of an infant. I realize how weak I actually am. All kidding aside though. Thank you. It's been great. And we're just, we're getting through it and having a good time. That's good,  
Speaker 1    00:01:59    Man. That's awesome brother. And yeah, it never was more evident to me than our last, uh, she's now 14. That's when many moons ago, I'm way old is when my wife just had a labor and she's just hoping through it. And then I get out of the bed. I stubbed my toe and I'm down for like two and a half weeks complaining about a stubbed toe I do right then and there she's a lot tougher than I was. That's  
Speaker 2    00:02:22    Incredible. I'm actually going to the doctor on tomorrow for a toe that I stubbed in 2015. I kid you not.  
Speaker 1    00:02:29    We got some claim there, real lingering  
Speaker 2    00:02:32    Man and lingering injury that I can't seem to get rid of here. So I mean, it's  
Speaker 1    00:02:37    Real because NFL players actually on the, on the, on the injured reserve for Toronto, right? Isn't that, that's a real thing. I'm going to stick with that. I'm going to rationalize it that way, Ryan, that I'm lucky for sure. Well, Hey man, I'm really super excited to have you before we kind of go in. Cause we got up, we got a very tactical episode today. Like we always do, but this one I'm really excited about. It's such an integral part of the outbound process from a prospecting standpoint, before we do that, kind of give the audience a little bit of a background on you, kind of what you've been doing in the space. Yeah.  
Speaker 2    00:03:09    So I've been in sales for over 2020 years. I fell into sales accidentally, which I think is a very common thing. If you actually go into the sales trenches and talk to a lot of people, like I kind of fell into the sales thing accidentally and I got my first commission check and then my life changed that kind of happened to me. I went to college to become a high school history teacher, but the summer that I graduated, I wasn't certified to teach. So I had to go get my certification, but I wanted to work while I was doing that. So I had applied for a job at a company called Connecticut telephone. And what I thought was going to be a retail job like selling phones in the store was actually a door to door sales, job, selling DSL, dial up internet services, beepers like I'm aging myself right now in Motorola flip cell phones and discounted phone service.  
Speaker 2    00:03:54    And I did that for almost 22 years and I loved it and I never looked back. You know, I was like my buddies and my friends are teaching making, you know this and I'm making three X. I'm probably going to stay on this, uh, sales, sales journey if you fast forward, you know, 15 years or so, I got into sales leadership. Um, you know, I fell in love with just the whole aspect of finding talent, hiring talent, mentoring, those individuals, you know, helping them elevate, become experts in their craft. And of course progressed throughout their careers. I left the startup world as a sales leader in 20 18 20. I'm going to try and figure this out. Yeah. 20 18, 20 19. Um, I started sales Jevity cold Turkey right before, um, the pandemic hit. So I kind of had that, oh shit moment. Like dude, what did I just do?  
Speaker 2    00:04:39    Like honey, I think I have to go back to work, but you know, I stuck with it. The first six months were really, really brutal. Um, but it allowed me to be myself and that my real persona shine on LinkedIn, I built a massive network through that approach. Um, got some really good clients on board, started making some money, built the business out of it. So I'm still in sales as a founder, but I always tell people that I'm a practitioner don't refer to me as a sales trainer. I'm only sharing, um, what your show actually embodies. And that's salespeople in the trenches doing the job every day and sharing that with, with, with an audience that's all I'm here to do. I'm make no money posting on LinkedIn or coming on shows. Um, I just want to help my fellow, my fellow salespeople.  
Speaker 1    00:05:23    That's awesome, man. You know, I, I love that because I always get leery when people, when someone's called an expert in anything, if you're an expert in sales, like sales changes way too much. Like you got to be pretty right. Am I wrong? Or am I, oh,  
Speaker 2    00:05:37    I got it. Yeah. Like, yeah, no, you're, you're dead on. Um, you know, tell me you're battle-tested you have scars. You've been through a lot. You're I'd rather hear experienced sales person versus an expert, but yeah, I don't know any experts without  
Speaker 1    00:05:51    A doubt. And then tell me how recent that was like was that like 10 years ago? Like tell me what you've done in the last two weeks. Like the calls you've made those types of things. Cause you're right. Just like what I've learned and Ryan, I think you would agree with this, that what I did, I might be exaggerate. What I did last week is not going to work necessarily next week. Cause people will have it to gravitate towards it. People take, what's working, you know, things that we're going to do on the show. That's worked for you, they're going to start using it. And at some point you've got to shift and adjust and evolve. Right?  
Speaker 2    00:06:21    Yeah. Look, I, I I've been counting. I've been shouting from the rooftops since 2015 that the pendulum is swinging back in a direction of legacy, gritty dirt under the fingernail, roll up your sleeve sales. And specifically when it comes to prospecting, you know, again, aging myself. But when I started, I had a green screen, a yellow, the yellow pages and a desktop phone. And I just came in on a Monday morning and I ripped calls to book my week and I had a paper calendar on my desk and I follow that very similar approach except by scatter my prospecting throughout the week. So I don't drive myself insane on a Monday on a Monday, but I re I remember in 2017 going on LinkedIn and saying that my sales stack was way too high. We have put so much money, muscle and effort into technologies and teaching our sales teams, how to use these tools versus teaching our sales teams, the craft of being a professional salesperson.  
Speaker 2    00:07:13    We taught them how to use technology. And I believe the pendulum is swinging back and you see a lot of people now saying you have to be creative. You have to be able to write. You have to be able to do research, be articulate, have a conversation, dig in, grab somebody's attention technology. Doesn't do that. And I, someone wants to come on the show with you and have a three-way conversation about it. We can probably have a healthy debate. Um, but you know, in the last two weeks to the last two years, I had been an advocate for get rid of these sequences, stop driving people crazy, go in the complete opposite direction of your competitors and your competitors are the safe, same salespeople who are trying to get time from Sam. It's all about calendar acquisition. And if you keep sending the same message, you're going to get muted out.  
Speaker 2    00:07:58    Um, and that's, that's definitely right. Like you don't want that. That's going to kill you. So I'm all about try to get to a no as quickly as possible. If you can get it within one phone call or one email, you know, you're winning. Um, and just cause one person in an organization of 500 people says, no doesn't mean you can't keep calling within the organization. Right. Um, I'm probably going to go off topic here a little bit, but I just want to really emphasize that that the pendulum is swinging back towards less sequence, less technology, more using your noodle, um, and becoming a fine writer and a stronger communicator.  
Speaker 1    00:08:30    I think that any, that would be a healthy debate. Now I'm actually going to make a note of that because I would love to, because I know there's obviously people out there and I'm kind of a tweener to be quite candid with you. Right. I, I see the value of technology I see from a scale, from an efficiency, from an effectiveness, but on the flip side of that, it creates a tr a tremendous amount of noise that is just inundating the market where I remember to your point, I used to be able to, if I make 10 calls, I used to be able to get five, six people on the line, actually, a connect call. Now I make 200 dials. I might get one person to connect. Like, so that's the noise I think you're referring to. Um, but yeah, I agree with you. It's  
Speaker 2    00:09:09    Pretty wild though. Like, so there's technology out there where you can make like 600 dials in three hours and I'm like, wow, that's really cool. But what actually pisses me off is the fact that we need technology that makes $600 and three hours. That's where we are as a society. And we've used so much technology to turn people off that we've, we've removed the humanization effect of what sales is all about. And it's a conversation and it's just, it's tough to get these days, right. You know  
Speaker 1    00:09:35    What, you know, we were just, I was having the conversation offline. And what I found is technology will either make a lazy sales rep, even lazier, or it could make a, a good sales rep, even that, like, if you like to your point, they know how to have a conversation. It's not batch and blast, but they could drive efficiencies where I can get instead of 20 emails, 40, but they're really good on target emails that amplifies myself versus the lazy one. Want me to send out the 20, let me batch and blast this template and hope for the best.  
Speaker 2    00:10:04    Yeah, it's so true. Now there is a difference in this might be a different topic on a diff different show. The, the mail merge out, down with the mail merge. I love the mail merge. You got a list. You want to get a message out to a hundred people. You do, you click send. Once you get your mail merge out. I'm not down with the seven step email sequence with like cartoons and gifts and videos. And like, dude, and I'm only, I know it's like a cranky old guy, but I'm not that old. And um, I think I'm at the forefront of prospecting to be honest. And I'm in my prime. So I, I talked to people about this stuff. I'm like, got to get that person off the eight step sequence, dude. You don't even know who they are.  
Speaker 1    00:10:42    I like that. And I know what we're going to talk about. Cause I think it's, so I think that's going to dovetail nicely into this next segment. Um, Hey, well, before I do that, you kind of talked on, you kind of talked about this. I was, you know, I always like to ask the question, Hey, I love the origin story. I love the door to door, man. And you're right. No one has ever come on this show say, Hey, I was a kid. I dreamed about being a salesperson. I never heard it yet. I'm hoping one day that will happen. But it hasn't. But I remember my days, like I did, I wasn't as successful. Like Mike, I didn't have a two year stint in any of those things, but I did do knife sales door to door. I did a rainbow vacuum cleaner door to door. That's a grind. I mean like that that's a different sale, right? I mean, like you beating on somebody's door, that's the say it like, that's, that's tough, man. Sam, I  
Speaker 2    00:11:33    Used to work with the guy years ago. He and I were in a full commission sales job, selling scheduling software to field service companies. And he was a Kirby sales rep for like five years. So he was going door to door, selling, vacuum cleaners. And then he, he, he, he just made the transition into inside sales and like his late forties and crushed  
Speaker 1    00:11:50    It. I have an unbelievable amount of, cause I've done it. I have an unbelievable amount of respect for somebody that typically at the dinner hour or whatever the CA can knock on that door and pitch your wares essentially, uh, in a somewhat, maybe hostile environment because I'm getting ready to sit down for dinner. But anyway, that, that, that is a completely different show. Um, so let's talk a little bit about that. So you actually, this would make me really want to reach out to you Ryan, because I, Hey, I love what you're doing on LinkedIn. I love the candid unfiltered on apologetic kind of view, but I read a few of your blog posts, uh, writing the perfect sales email really jumped out at me. And I wanted to discuss that with you. Like, Hey, kind of give me some kind of give us some context behind that. You've kind of gone down that path a little bit, but give us a little context around writing that perfect sales email.  
Speaker 2    00:12:41    All right. So I have to correct you it's writing the close, the close too.  
Speaker 1    00:12:46    Oh, I didn't see the parentheses. Oh, he's covered my ground  
Speaker 2    00:12:51    Here, man. I don't want to get myself, you know, it's because then you become an expert, right? The close to perfect email. How close? I don't know, as close as I can get it to. Perfect. Okay. Fair  
Speaker 1    00:13:02    Catch on your site. So let's rewind. So we're going to edit that out. Just joking, writing the close to as close to perfect each sales email as you can, where do you want  
Speaker 2    00:13:11    To start? You want to just like dissect like the five parts. So  
Speaker 1    00:13:13    From the top, like let's do it from the subject because this is actually about always when you're talking metrics and AB testing and KPIs, everybody's like, well, what is your open rate? And obviously majority of your open rate is really dependent on that subject line. So what's your thoughts on subject line, right?  
Speaker 2    00:13:29    Yeah. So the open rate thing, I think we need to be really careful of. Um, it can become a, a blinding metrics, you know, a nice shiny object or a vanity metric. Oh wow. My open rates are really high, but that could be a firewall checking the email. It could be a filter, just, you know, saying, Hey, that email is open. It could be popping up on the side pain of someone's email client. And it gets marked as open. Um, with regard to subject lines, I tend to go for simplicity. And if I can, if I can ask a question or be provocative in three words or less, I'm probably going to increase my chances of not only getting the email open, but actually getting the email examined. Um, I've been doing something lately where I ask questions. Um, and I try to apply that question to the persona just to get them actually thinking, um, obviously the easiest one, if you're selling to HR is hiring with the question mark or hiring manager with a question mark, um, versus say, congratulations on your growth.  
Speaker 2    00:14:24    Everyone's saying that hiring, that could be from an interested candidate. It could be from a recruiter that wants to partner with you. It could be from a technology provider. Um, you could say things like, congratulations on your Q3 close, but you might want, want to say, what about Q4 instead? Right. Like ask that question, like, Hey man, hero to zero. If you're a sales leader, if you've got something that's going to help me, you know, boost my pipeline by 20% as early as possible in Q4, that gives me a little bit of a leg up. So that could be, um, you know, just try to use those little nuances and try to tweak it a little bit to just get a thought provoking question that is applicable to the persona and try to do it in three words or less.  
Speaker 1    00:15:04    I like that. The key takeaway I took when I was reading that blog post was, was three words or less right. Really concise to the point, get it across. Right. That's the goal. I mean, I think that's what you're boiling it down to. Right. Brian, at the end of the day,  
Speaker 2    00:15:18    I want my email to be read.  
Speaker 1    00:15:19    So let me ask you this because you brought up a couple of times, Hey, either I leave with something provocative or I lead with the question in my subject line, how do you gauge that? Like, is that by your persona? Because you provocative to certain roles. It's not going to go over very well versus asking a question to certain roles. It's probably just can be like, okay, I've heard this question 1,000,001 times, like, how do you gauge? Cause you're really down in the trenches when it comes to that,  
Speaker 2    00:15:41    You have to visualize the person that you're actually emailing and try to visualize as best as you can their day before the pandemic, before they were home. Right? Because let's for the sake of, of, of, of moving forward, everyone's going back to the office. All right. Everyone's back, back in the office. So Sally Smith, VP of marketing, she ran out of one room. She was this on a zoom with her sales team, having a meeting. She's now heading down the hallway and going to another meeting. She's got time to maybe grab a drink, use the ladies room and then head off to the next meeting. If you think that Sally isn't checking her phone in between, you're crazy. She's checking texts from her family personal stuff, maybe. But for the most part, she is in her work email, seeing what the heck is going on, what subject line or what question can I raise to get her to open up that email while she's getting a coffee or leaving the ladies room, heading down, down the hall to go to the next week, just to get her to stop for a second and be like, what the heck is this?  
Speaker 2    00:16:37    And once you start to think that way, if that becomes your metric, and that becomes your, your, your key performance indicator of what you're trying to accomplish, the, get her to stop in the hallway and read it changes the way that you approach the content. It changes how you approach the subject line. So when I talk to people who reach out to me, Hey man, like, you know, what do you think of this email? I'm like, if I was going, if I was in between three meetings, I wouldn't stop to read it. And like what I'm like, yeah, man. Like if you try, decision-makers read your emails between meetings. They don't like carve out two hours in the middle of the day to sit behind their desk and catch up on email. They do that at night when their kids are asleep or when they're back from the gym. Um, there's a lot there to unpack, but I want people to understand that, like you really got to dig into like, why should someone stop and read your email? And that's when you can begin to write some really good subject  
Speaker 1    00:17:23    Lines. You're saying that what jumps out at me the most and you know, instill being in that practitioner role as well, you know, leading a sales team, you know, getting hit up every other day or from other SAS, SAS technologies trying to sell to a VP of sales is you're right. You know, I find myself hopping from one meeting to the next, getting barraged with the email, all of them look very similar, a how is ROI and whatever the case might be. And I find that I only glanced through that quickly while I'm heading into another meeting. And I very rarely actually click on, but there are times where I'm like, Hey, that's kind of cool. What is that? And I'll click on it and all that. So what I'm saying there is you're right. You have a very finite period of time to get someone's attention. It's not to your point. I'm not sitting here waiting for an email to come through or twiddling my thumbs. It's got to provoke me to take some type of action and it's got to be closely connected to what is top of mind for me.  
Speaker 2    00:18:19    Yeah, absolutely. So you're a sales VP. When do you typically in the week meet with your team to Drolly them get them ready? Focused on the week in the afternoons. Great. So what if at like five o'clock I send you an email that says, how did your meeting go? And that that's a subject line. You might read it.  
Speaker 1    00:18:38    I might, you know, it might be one of those types of things where I would either read it. I liked the fact that you would say, Hey, how'd your meetings go if you can connect those dots. Right? I mean, if you can connect the dots between like my meeting went fantastic, what meeting we talking about by G I understand where you're coming from with it,  
Speaker 2    00:18:56    Sales meeting, question, mark sales meeting. You're like what? I'd probably open that. And I'm like, ah, this sales guy got me, but as an, as a fellow salesperson, I'd probably have a little bit of respect my guy, you know, nice job. Let me check this email out really quick. Let me give this person a shout out here.  
Speaker 1    00:19:11    I'm wondering on that line where like to get down in the weeds on this, because I'm wondering if there's a, like you're saying that research, right? You know, you don't have to have the writing skills, the research capability. I'm sure there's a best practice where, you know, 80% of VPs are doing their one-on-one sales meetings on a Monday. So if you just fall follow the law of averages at the end of the day, you're probably doing a lot better than most in following that thought process. So I think that's actually a good catch on your side. So let's talk about opening lines because this is one that one actually pushed back a little bit on you. I don't want to figure out because I remember in reading at geography and you'll walk us through it. Actually let's do this. Let's rewind. Let's go through that. And I have a couple of questions for you based on your feedback around this Ryan. So I'm seeing geography based commonality based and value based are kind of your three triggers when it comes to three opening line methodologies. So walk us through that. So it seems like pretty self-explanatory walk us through kind of your thought process. So geography based is that as simple as, Hey, I'm in Charleston, South Carolina, you're in Charleston, South Carolina, walk us through that.  
Speaker 2    00:20:20    So this is where people might get a little confused and they might also say, well, I'm not a territory rep. And I say, well, that doesn't matter because I'm all about humanizing emails. I want people to, when they get the email to know it's not coming from some automated, robotic AI driven, distributed prospecting machine, a human wrote the email, a human thought about this. And I know it's hard, but this is one step closer to making it a little bit easier. So I always say, you know, here's where, so, you know, mine is, I reside in low country. If I'm prospecting into Georgia, I reside in low country because everyone lives somewhere like you're in Orlando. I'm sure Lando has like a nickname that only certain people know, or like, you know, central Florida, whatever you want to call it. But when you say low country in the south, everyone knows what that means, right?  
Speaker 2    00:21:12    Like, oh, he's, he's in like Charleston, he's in the Charleston area. He's below Columbus. So I do it not because I'm from here. I say, I reside. Like I, you know, I, this where I live right now and like, oh, they know this guy's nearby. You know, he, maybe he actually is a real person just trying to reach out. And I try to take that first step into making the email as human as possible. And you don't have to be a territory rep to do it. You can be anywhere in the country, anywhere in the world. You should tell people where you're, where you're calling in from, you know, where you're writing your, your, your, your message from like, when someone calls like a radio host, like to make a song request, the radio host to Leah says, Hey, Ryan, will you calling in from, everybody wants to know I'm from calling from Sacramento, California. You're like, that's kind of cool. Those are old school things that I think connect people. Um, and I want people to know where I reside in, like where I'm emailing you from. And I'm not just some guy in a basement being weird.  
Speaker 1    00:22:06    Uh, I remember back in my territory days back in Cintas selling uniforms, you know, pedaling, wares as much as I could, uh, you know, Alabama, that's where I met my wife. You know, y'all like, that's, that's the Bible belt. Right. And y'all like, those types of things needs of, because you're talking to someone from that. I mean, that does build some common. Now I know we're talking about geography, but there's also some commonality there that, Hey, I'm right in your backyard as well. Right. I'm a guy here in the south as well. What, they bet me, they realized I was not from Alabama, but, uh, anyway, I liked that piece of it. Yeah. I know when I talk to somebody, when I'm out of Orlando, kind of the running theme here in Orlando is house of the mouse. And that's kind of a very Orlando based terms of you're talking to someone in central Florida. How so the mouse is pretty common. Uh, but yeah, that's cool. Come commonality base. I think this one is a little bit easier, but help me understand kind of how, what your thought process around commonality based.  
Speaker 2    00:23:05    Yeah, yeah, definitely. So what I try to basically do is, and I'm not even sure if commonality based is the right term as I'm going back and reading this, but I'm trying to basically do, is draw a parallel between the company I represent and the company that had that I'm selling to. Um, I firmly believe that companies purchase technology services, products from companies that have similar traits to theirs, and that could be a leadership aspect. It could be something culturally, it could be size. Um, it could be revenue. Uh, it could be, it could be anything, but there's always a cup. Oh yeah. Oh, you guys do that too at your company. Yeah. We that as well. And I think it makes them feel a little bit more comfortable in continuing the conversation in doing business with you. So I use blanket statements like, Hey, Ryan reaching out from a company almost as cool as yours.  
Speaker 2    00:23:57    Meaning like, I know how cool your company is. Cause I did the research. Um, we're pretty cool company too. I'm looking forward to telling you why we're cool and why I work here and why I love it, but we're almost as cool as you guys, um, it gets a chuckle sometimes, especially when you call it, like if I cold call, um, there's two things I, I typically say, I'll say, uh, unfortunately for you and I, cold calling is a part of my job. I paused the two, he gets a, a nice, funny reaction or I say, Hey, you know, my name is Ryan. I'm calling from a company almost as awesome as yours. You have 30 seconds to talk and people soften up right away. Um, I'm calling from a company almost as cool as yours lets them know that I know about your company. I'm not just coming in blind. So I look for the commonality based stuff that I could create as quickly as possible.  
Speaker 1    00:24:37    You know what I like about that? I know we've been talking about email, but like I know you've pivoted into that kind of that call, which I like, because the thing that, the biggest, the biggest thing that you're always facing is just that defensive mechanism that you're interrupting their day. Right? That's the thought process, right? And so their guard is high and by making it really a, Hey, I'm calling from a company almost as awesome as yours or Hey, you know, we both take the cold calling aspect of things, but unfortunately is what I have to do. Kind of, it kind of does love where that Gar, right. It says, Hey, I'm a human you're human. Let's have a conversation. If it makes sense. If you have 30 seconds,  
Speaker 2    00:25:11    I mean, it could backfire, the person could hate their job and their company could just suck. And I'm like, Ugh.  
Speaker 1    00:25:17    Yeah, you're right. Yeah. Without a doubt. But once again, I think it goes back to what you were saying earlier on Ryan is let's just get back to being human. Let's just get back, like put the technology aside for a minute. Like actually we're getting back to that. Let's have the organic conversations and sometimes you have good conversations just like in life. Good relationships, bad relationships. That's the sales man. If it was, if it was a 100% batting average, and again, I would be doing it. So value based. Talk to us a little bit about the value based one, because that can go a couple of different ways when I read that.  
Speaker 2    00:25:51    Yeah. I remember the value deliver value pitch. Like that started to really surface two years ago was like, give me a compelling reason why I should take a call call from you. Like what, what value am I going to get out of this? I just dumped the value on them and asked for nothing in return. Um, and people haven't seen this for a long time. I don't think this is anything revolutionary. But what I do is I'll say Janet, last week I delivered the exact same report to your peers. The reaction was very positive. They're farm just sending it over to you. And, and here's the report on gated. I don't need you. I already clearly already have your contact information because I got it from zoom info. Um, but here's the report. If you want to have a conversation or if want me to connect you to one of your peers who also wrote the report for peer to peer discussion, you know, this could take on so many different life forms, but this is just a way for me to say, I've been given this out to, to your, your peers.  
Speaker 2    00:26:41    And I thought you might like it. If I applied a very similar approach on a call yesterday, I was running a discovery slash demo call. And what I had said to the person on the phone is I said, you know, in the last month or two, I'm seeing more and more controllers and CFOs pop up earlier in the decision process earlier in the sales process earlier on in the discovery process, are you guys experiencing the same thing internally at your company? And that exposes a lot of things for me. What is the actual sales process for them? Like what I got, what do I have to do to get through, to close this deal? Are they really involved? Like our financial folks really involved? And are they willing to tell me, no, it's not the controller it's actually legal. So I do the value based stuff to hopefully at some point, if I get on the phone with them, I kind of like plant that little seed of like, I'm talking to your peers. Here's some stuff. Here's what we're seeing. Are you seeing the same thing on, by the way, here's a report a little deeper than probably you want it to go on that one, but that's where I try to eventually grow to with the value based stuff. Because I think it's more than just, Hey, here's why you should talk to me because you're going to get this out of it. That's, that's becoming weaker and weaker of, of, uh, of, of no,  
Speaker 1    00:27:51    That's fair. So in that scenario, and I know that's one use case, I mean, that's one example and there's a thousand different ways. I'm sure we use value. You would kind of construct a value and that's scenario, Hey, I've shared this with your peers, you know, maybe connecting the dots there, but how could you use value base if you don't have that link? Like I haven't sent this to your peers or Hey, they haven't responded with, with feedback. Like is the whole, Hey, we've been able to drive 21%. That's not value based. Right? I mean, I'm just trying to get our head around from an audience standpoint. Like what is value? Because in today's day and age I've been pitched a, Hey, we can drive three X, you know, you're, we can accelerate your deal by 26%. And I guess in some ways that's value based if I'm thinking through that. Right. But that's not what you're saying. Right? Ryan, that's kind of canned approach. Correct.  
Speaker 2    00:28:40    Here's the reason why I don't think, I think it's value based is because you're trying to quantify something that is not really believable. Like we can increase your pipeline by three X we'll. Do you know how much my pipeline is right now? What if I don't need my pipeline increased by three X, but I need, you know, leads it just there there's different ways to apply these, these metrics that are just pulled from the sky. Um, and that's how they come off. Maybe some of them are, are factual. Maybe you do have to have the data and the benchmark analysis to, to support it. I say avoid that stuff because on the surface from a stranger reading it it's, it's, it's not believable. I think what's more believable is that we are in constant contact with your peer. If we talked to VPs of sales all the time, um, a pretty strong subset of that group on an immense value from this report, I'm taking a flyer here or I'm taking a shot in the dark maybe and throw in this report your way.  
Speaker 2    00:29:30    Um, which is a lot more than saying, we're gonna increase this, decrease that, you know, uh, just here's what it is. Um, if it becomes like, well, you know, maybe that's like not necessarily true, like you didn't give it out to a hundred of your peers and got a positive response. I will lean on the internal stakeholders in my company. I can say, Hey, I could tell you right now that Mike, we wrote this report two weeks ago, my CFO saw it for the first time this morning. And he, or she absolutely loved it. And we sell to controllers and their back office teams to help them increase their ability to collect overdue invoices. I felt you'd find value from this. Um, you can't do that with automation. That's why I keep talking about this. You have to, you have to come back my car. I mean, how am I going to, like, how can I repurpose the content that marketing spent so much money creating to crack a little bit of the door open for me to get me in? I guess you got to become a good storyteller. No,  
Speaker 1    00:30:24    I think that's fair. I mean, I like what you're saying and maybe I didn't connect that dot. So I'm glad you clarify that because when you say peer, I'm almost thinking an internal peer, which is really a colleague, but what you're saying, Hey, Hey, Sam, I've sent this report to other VPs of sales, similar to you with what they're challenged with. And they've actually found some value in here. Do you think it makes sense? Or do you want me to send this to you? Or do you want me to connect you with one of those other people that have found value? So it's not necessarily trying to connect the dots between colleagues within the organization. It's similar roles to that person that you're reaching out where they may have. You may have actually gotten some very profound feedback from them, correct?  
Speaker 2    00:31:02    There's more of a peer community externally, right? Like on a macro level, like the people that you talk to on LinkedIn, that kind of thing. Yeah.  
Speaker 1    00:31:10    Makes sense. So, okay. Let's shift a little bit, uh, body, because I like this piece of it. This is where, and I want to actually get your thoughts before we go down this path. We hear personalization, personalization, personalization, personalization about a gazillion one times, Hey, everything should be personalized when you're writing a sales email, personalized, personalized, personalized, but Ryan, like from a scale standpoint, like you can also get paralysis by analysis by trying to craft every little nuance of an email. Like where do you fall in that? Like, what's the fine line between, got it. Take you 25 minutes to write this email. That's way too much. Like I like the structure that we're giving here, which I think helps. But talk to us a little bit about that whole personalization subject matter.  
Speaker 2    00:31:50    Yeah, definitely. So brevity is always going to be key. I think if you think again, of the person going from one meeting to the next, getting a coffee, going to the next meeting that you really do have to get to the point and the body of the email doesn't have to be five to seven sentences. You're not writing a paragraph. What you're trying to do is you're trying to just make that person again, think to them themselves, it doesn't hurt to learn by continuing to read this email. It doesn't hurt to learn by clicking on the link that I sent you. It doesn't hurt to learn, to, um, speak to me. So I use these two phrases and I use them tactically. So I always say it doesn't hurt to learn and you have nothing to lose. And you know, you have nothing. I'll go backwards.  
Speaker 2    00:32:30    You have nothing to lose by sending me your, um, your monthly bills on, uh, food for the office. So I'm just, I'm throwing stuff out of the air, right? Because everyone wants to bring down their monthly expenses to keep their employees happy. You have nothing to lose by sending me your last two months bills a summary of that. And let me run a free cost analysis of getting the same food supply to your office at a potentially cheaper rate, you have nothing to lose. So it's like, he's right. I don't have anything to lose. Let me send this guy a couple of bills. That's a great exchange of, okay, now I have something I can add that this is, I can put my hands on this. This is tangible. I can run this through an analysis and I can really get back some quantifiable data points that can get this person to think, Hey, maybe we should switch.  
Speaker 2    00:33:13    Um, it doesn't hurt to learn caught my attention about a year and a half ago. Um, a rep had reached out to me and I just said, I don't know, I'm I I'm, no, I'm not interested. And they were like, but Ryan, it doesn't hurt her to learn. And I was like, yeah, you know what, dude, you're right. It doesn't hurt to learn. And I'm going to carve out 15 minutes to learn because, and it wasn't a learning session just said, Hey, you know, were you aware that, you know, companies in your space are experiencing this other, so leaders are saying that that they're doing it doing this. And these are some of the results in a wide range of five to 20% that they're experiencing. Um, it goes back to like just the thought provoking stuff. Um, but I like to put in the middle of like the body of an email. So  
Speaker 1    00:33:54    There's two things you have there. And I know we're boiling it down, is it doesn't hurt to learn? You have nothing to lose. Right? And that, that goes back to that. I always quote it back to my early days when the whole risk reward, is there more risk or more reward for that prospect, that client, whatever it might be, if you keep lowering those barriers or lowering the risk, you have a better shot of getting that next call tax, whatever it might mean or getting the meeting, whatever it is to you in that particular scenario. That's awesome. Hey, I'm just curious. Uh, did, did the guy get, did, did the guy hit you, did, did you buy his service the 15 minutes? And he shared something just curious more than anything now.  
Speaker 2    00:34:32    Yeah, yeah, definitely. I'm trying to think back now. I know we, we did a trial. Um, I had basically my entire team on, on a trial. So it basically was, it was a lead scraper. It was a, a plugin lead lead scraper that scraped LinkedIn. I'm not going to bring up their name. Um, eventually they got, you know, LinkedIn said you can't do that anymore. Um, and then they had to go build another product, but I was using the scraper to get names and email addresses and phone numbers. Uh, and we went through a trial, but any VP listening to this call right now, most of us don't have signing authority. I never did. So I'd have to go to the powers that be and just trying to get that stuff approved. They didn't work because they didn't believe in, um, just using additional tools. So that's fine, but it doesn't hurt to learn, let us to a trial, which the numbers prove to be successful. We just didn't end up buying it. You  
Speaker 1    00:35:22    Know what I like about that scenario? Because the guy did a couple of things, right? In my thoughts and in my bumps, as you were walking us through, that's the reason I asked that question, is that not only did he say right, you have nothing that doesn't hurt to learn, got the meeting with you. But another, another barrier he lowered is not trying to get you to sign a one-year contract. Like pilot, make it easy. Let's test it out. I don't know if it will work for your company, but let's test it out. What's the worst that could happen on almost going back to you have nothing to lose. We do a 90 day pilot. Let's see what the results are. Right. She did a couple of things right there. It really lowering that risk.  
Speaker 2    00:35:56    Yeah. Sam, we used to do this all the time at data monitor. And you know, we would call hedge funds that manage, you know, a hundred million AUM or less. And like their, their portfolio manager would say to us, I use tweet deck for this. I'm like, this is different than tweet deck. You have nothing to lose by trialing data miner. Side-by-side with tweet deck and our platform. You have nothing to lose. In fact, you're going to get free signals through our platform that can actually make you money. Why wouldn't you do trial our software it's free for 30 days. And they're like, oh yeah. And by the way, that doesn't hurt them. Yeah.  
Speaker 1    00:36:28    It's funny. Cause when you put it in that way, um, and I know I'm going off a little bit here, but, but sometimes I think we just over-complicate things as sales individuals, like we want to be, I don't, this isn't the right word, but we want to be such salesy. Like w we want to be such sales people that we want to say the right thing at the right. Like, but sometimes it's just, it's just common sense. Like, why wouldn't you test a side-by-side if we can net you, like, there's no risk to you. Like that makes no like, and that's truly you being human. Like, I'm just, it's crazy to me that you wouldn't want to try this out. Right?  
Speaker 2    00:36:59    Yeah. I completely agree. Like, I mean, unless they're like, Hey yeah, I do have some something to lose my time and you can say, well, I kind of, I understand that, but it's for the benefit of your team, we're not actually taking your time away leader. We might be taking some time away from your reps in the beginning, but there, you know, the payback on productivity is going to be larger than what they're going to invest upfront.  
Speaker 1    00:37:20    Yeah. All right. Without, I mean, I, a buddy of mine used to always say, yeah, it may cost you 15 minutes, but 15 minutes can net you potentially X amount of dollars. I mean, that's a good, that's a good return on your investment of time. So I liked that. So let's talk about call to actions because this is where the rubber meets the road. Right? Right. I mean, the whole reason we're reaching out to you is we're trying to get something from you. And what is that in your book? Like, well, maybe that's a good step. Like what is, what should is, is the call to action? Always. Can I get 15? I saw just a post on LinkedIn around 15 minutes, 15 minutes. Is that, is that the call to action all the time? What's your thought process around call-to-action  
Speaker 2    00:37:57    The process around, or my thought process around call to action is to garner a positive reaction, not carve out 15 minutes of someone's time for some event that may or may not be fruitful for both sides. So I'm always looking to like, get some kind of reaction. I'm trying to get them to do something and I want them to do it because they saw the email, they saw the offer, they click on the link, they can do this or get that. And I want to track that. I want to look at that behavior. And then I want to say to myself as my next move, what caused them to do it? Like, why did they click on it? They must have seen value in it. Some people just click on shit cause they want to click on shit. Oh yeah. Click on it. What the heck is this?  
Speaker 2    00:38:35    But if you write, if you write a good email to the right person at the right time and they click on the, on the link, you know, there's a reason for if they click on, um, you know, the free analysis, the free demo, whatever it may be. Um, this just goes back to my HubSpot days. I sat in training for 30 days and you couldn't leave the room until you learn how to build a website, write a blog, post, use SEO, use keywords, and get someone to click on a call to action button at the end of cause. A call to action for me was a strategically placed button that somebody would click on that drives them to do another action. It's not a Calendly link. That's not a call to action. That is a selfish self fulfilling prophecy. If you're sending someone to click on calendar links, no one drives me. I don't want to click on your calendar, dude. I don't need to do that. I don't work for you. But if the, if the CTA leads me to something that if I click on that, I might actually get, get something out of it. Um, I think we have to think that way, if you remember, we spoke earlier, I said, you know, if sales move more salespeople, start to think like marketers and apply some of those marketing tactics to what they do as salespeople. They're going to be that much better at being salespeople.  
Speaker 1    00:39:49    So give us an example of like you did in your blog post. I think it was tied to business insurance, but like w what would be a good call? Like, so I'm just trying to think of my world in the retail business side, and we're trying to sell retail as fast technology, but, and I know there's a lot of things that go in and you just can't pick a call to action off the top of your head, but like w what would be a feasible, Hey, if maybe using the business insurance as an example, Hey, I've done this, this and this, maybe the call to action for this as, Hey, engage in this free report, or, Hey, I just wanted to share that, like w what would be a feasible in your mind call to action? That scenario Ryan  
Speaker 2    00:40:27    Has to be something that you give back to them that they can take action on, right. That they can look at and go, oh, wow. If I do these two, he, Ryan gave me 10 recommendations that I could use. If I apply to these, it looks like it's only gonna take me 10 minutes to do it. And I mean, there's no risk in doing it. There's only upside. That's what I mean by a call to action in marketers, do this the best they do the free analysis that no obligation quote, um, we'll do a, um, an assessment of your career page and see if we're gonna attract more candidates to it. We've run it through our free analysis, uh, uh, analyzer, um, HubSpot used to have this thing called marketing, greater.com back in the day. And I don't know if it worked or not, but you put your web website in and it would give you a report card and tell you how shitty your website was and what you could do to make it better.  
Speaker 2    00:41:13    Like that's a call to action. And if we equipped salespeople with this stuff, and we start funneling those things to them as <inaudible>, those might even be, those could be even like quasi SQLs, because you got the right person they're willing to take potential action based on the data points you gave them. If you do get them on the phone, you actually have to have like a script that can serve as like the center piece of the conversation versus an interrogation call through discovery. So I'm kind of going all over the place, but that's what I want from the call to action. And I try to do this stuff when I'm selling. I don't really ask people for time, but I do ask them to deliver something back to me. I'll put the time in, if you're willing to just go get me that bill, or, you know, that report that you're working on, or, you know, let me run some, some stats on your website or, you know, customer trends, foot traffic, like what's going on. Like, let's look at, see if there's a decrease or an increase in if so, here is what other restaurants in your, uh, in your space within busy metros are doing it to drive up foot traffic, whatever it is. It just, we have to get away from asking people for their time because everyone else is still doing it.  
Speaker 1    00:42:18    I like that. So, I mean, essentially what you're saying at the end of the day is asking the recipient to give you the time by providing, by providing you something tangible, right? Hey, if you fill this out, it takes four minutes. We can get you a free assessment. So they're there. They're basically saying, okay, I'll do that. They're giving you something as a sales rep. Now that assessment is a natural lead into, can we, or can we not help you? And let's have a dialogue based off the feedback from this assessment. Is that, is that kind of the fair approach?  
Speaker 2    00:42:48    Yeah. You actually have like something that you can really sink your teeth into on both, both ends. Like, I don't want it to be like a shone tile listening session. Um, like w when I came out of college and I was going door to door, selling phone, phone services, the one piece of that I would ask for the critical piece of data, Hey, can I see your phone bill? I'll go back to my office. I'll run it through an analysis to come back to you. It's a potential cost savings. And nine times out of 10 people are like, open their drawer for me, their SNAT at and T phone bill. I run it through some analysis and the numbers of the numbers. If you switched to us, here's what you say. If you don't have to, but if you do, here's what you get out of it. You have nothing  
Speaker 1    00:43:23    Makes sense. I like that. Um, Hey, and there's a couple of things. Uh, so let, there was one thing I wanted to bring up. Cause there was another tip that we were talking about offline, and I want to tackle this one because I've not used this one. Uh, I've, I've actually heard this now once before. Uh, but talk to us a little bit about the PS, um, and how you're utilizing it and what that means in general.  
Speaker 2    00:43:46    First came to my attention probably two years ago, when I tried to reply.io as like an email sequencing tool. And they were using PS in lieu of an opt-out link. I thought that was kind of cool. I was like, wow, that kind of humanizes it a little bit. Cause they can reply back and say, not interested versus clicking a link and blowing up my domain or, you know, blacklisting my, my email account, which happens anyway. But I'm always seeking ways to connect and be genuine over email because I believe that email is not dead. It's just the current state of affairs. And the process is definitely becoming a fossil. We have to switch back to the written word, being a much more, you know, humanizing event, similar when we cold call, um, which is why I tell people always leave voicemail, right? Tonality. They can hear you.  
Speaker 2    00:44:36    You can be articulate and get your message across. It's free advertising with the PS though. What I try to do at the end of the email is just let them know, look, I'm the antithesis of, of the other people that are going to be reaching out to you. And what I mean by that is I don't have you loaded up in one of those popular software tools that are going to email you six or seven times, send you the gifts and videos and funny things to try to arouse you and get a reaction from you. I'm only going to do this once one time only. So either you're going to say no, yes, or maybe, or ignore me. But if you ignore me, I'm not okay. Like I'm not going to email you again. I tell people you're not in a marketing list. I'm not going to email you again.  
Speaker 2    00:45:16    You're not part of the sequence. This is just a one-time email. I'm sending you from my dining room table on a Sunday night and we're all human. If you get an email from someone at eight 30 on a Sunday night, and this day, I'm sending you an email from our dining room table at eight 30 on a Sunday night. If you don't have a heart, then you don't have a heart, but most of us do. And I think we can all say to each other, man, is dudes working right now? Let me at least tell them to go pound sand. We're not interested. And let me at least give them that. And to me that, that that's a win. That's a good metric to go off of. Yeah. You know, I got about 50 nos today, but I got more nos than you got yeses.  
Speaker 2    00:45:51    And I got more nos and you got nos. And I actually heard back from people and I am a human being. I'm not dead on, you know, sales isn't as bad as we all make it out to be. People do get, get back to people. If you show a level of respect and you can do it, use the PS, use it wisely. Just be honest. Like I'm not. Look I have, I have gotten meetings five days later, people have actually emailed me back. One person I kid you not said I was going to, I waited to email you back. Cause I want to call your bluff. I thought for sure, within two days I was going to get email number two on the sequence I kid you not. And I laugh. We both laughed. I said, no, dude, like I'm not, I I'm, I'm 44 years old, man. Like I, if I, if I tell you, I'm not gonna email you again, I'm not gonna email you again. You know? It's like, um, I don't, I'm not going to play, play the games with you. And sure enough, I got a meeting. It didn't turn into anything, but I got a meeting and I thought that was pretty cool. The guy like he called my bluff and I was like, damn dude, like maybe it does work. And you, if you say in sales, if you say you're going to do something, do it right.  
Speaker 1    00:46:54    That piece of it. Okay. So, so just boiling that down, Ryan. So is the goal of the PS just to show, Hey, I'm human. Like I'm really back here typing this, this isn't an outreach or SalesLoft. One of those, that's the only goal of that. Right?  
Speaker 2    00:47:06    That's the first goal. Like I, you know, I don't want my email blown up. I don't want, you know, sales Jevity or any company that I'm working for at to get tarnished. Because I mean, as a sales person, I decided I'm going to spam everybody. Like we are burning out our IP addresses because salespeople are doing mass spray and pray campaigns. And so that's another story, but yes, I want to humanize it. I want them to, Hey, look, ma'am, I am writing this email and I make sure look, the email goes out on a Sunday night at eight 30. It's not, I'm not waiting till Wednesday to send it. They, they go and run an audit and in their inbox, like, yeah, this thing came through at 8 37 Sunday night. All right, man, let me, let me, let me email the, this poor sucker back and tell him that.  
Speaker 1    00:47:51    So on that note, so here's my only, I want to get your thoughts on this. Cause this is important. There's a couple aspects to this that I think we get caught in a vicious loop. And I think it's a self. Uh, I think it's, we do it to ourselves. Like we're always chasing activity, activity activity. We just sit like we got to hit 200 activities and we gotta, we gotta, you know, we gotta send out so many emails to get the metrics back, but there's also the side of it that Ryan, what is it? What is the rule? What is the thought process that takes most clients won't reach out until like the eighth touch, but only 30% of sales reps actually reached past step six or whatever the case might be like is one email. Like if you sent me an email, I'm actually love what you're doing, Ryan, but I don't have a title actually reach out, say, Hey, go pound sound or Hey, let's schedule something. And I may just forget, it just gets lost in the inbox. And if you never email me again, is there, is there like, there's a downside of that. There's a, there's a, there's a given a take there. What's your thoughts around that? I think  
Speaker 2    00:48:52    You raise a very good point in that. Uh, I do believe that it takes multiple attempts to get through to somebody. My goal is to not, I think of it differently and maybe I'm wrong, but I, but I think of it, like I don't want it to, I don't want to take seven emails to one person to get a reaction. I also look at the stats if I send out a hundred emails and I have a 7% reply rate that is incredibly high. I don't know a lot of sequences, successful sequences that have a 7% reply rate. They don't, they become ignored after a while. Or it's this guy, Ryan again, what is this email? The, you know, the bump me again, just in case you missed it, trying to get the top of your inbox. Here's a video. Yeah. Here's like a, you know, uh, uh, Mike, Michael Jackson, eating popcorn and in the mood in the movie theater, like all this nonsense that like, you're like, you're sending this off to a CFO at a, you know, 500 person company, dude.  
Speaker 2    00:49:48    Like it's not stopped doing that stuff. I don't find it funny, but it's me anyway. Um, so I do see your point there, but there is the phone call that, that can still take place. There's a LinkedIn request. I don't think we go in to LinkedIn enough and find these people that are actually posting content and just giving them a quick thumbs up. Just like it. They get the notification. Oh wait, is that, that guy rhino emailed me who says, never email me again. It does work. You just have to have faith. That's why I gave the example of five days later. I heard back the guy called my bluff. He's like, Hey man, I want to email you back sooner, but I want to call your bluff. People do this stuff. You have to just, you gotta take a leap of faith. Sometimes I know.  
Speaker 2    00:50:24    We all think that, oh, it takes seven attempts to get, to get a meeting. According to who, some benchmark expert, that's writing a book or you know, some sales coach that that's talent telling you this, trust yourself. If your content is good enough, if you come across as a real human being, if you do your research, you do the right stuff consistently. I think you're going to have a higher success rate than you would if you did the high volume, you know, just seven emails, 15 phone calls and stuff. Um, but no, you can send an email. You can call, you can do, you know, an email. Maybe you can always say, Hey, I said, I wasn't gonna email you again. But I, you know, I've said nothing about buck calling you four times. I'm just sort of talking about email, man. Like people getting really pissed off about the email stuff. Um, but we still have to use it as a healthy medium to try to communicate with people, to get, to get our meetings and our, you know, our deals closed  
Speaker 1    00:51:13    Feedback, thoughts for the audience. Like things that we didn't touch upon that, Hey, like, Hey, for those out there, here, here's another tip or just, Hey, I just wanted to level set with everyone out there. Final thoughts from the audience.  
Speaker 2    00:51:25    Yeah. Yup. Don't hesitate. Trust yourself. Do it. Don't second. Guess a thing. If you think that you want to try something today that might work, do it. You have nothing to lose. It doesn't hurt to learn. I hate to keep pushing those two phrases, but just fricking do it. Don't worry about what you read on LinkedIn from some sales trainer, some influencer who doesn't do your job, that if they, if they're not in the same CGU with a quota over their head and a guillotine next to their desk, you can go do what you want to do. Try your thing today. Some people say, well, I got to get these metrics out or my boss is going to get, get pissed off. We'll get those done first. I didn't say don't do the things that you're being paid to do. But I'm saying if you have something that you want to try, that list of 200 calls, pull 50 out, do the one 50 for your employer and keep 50 for yourself and see if it can work. And then if it does work, go back and say, Hey Sam, I tried something. I went rogue, but the good news is I got some really positive results. I think we can scale across the team. You could become a hero really fast, but it has to start with you taking a leap of faith. The water's warm, always jump in. You have nothing to lose. Just do it.  
Speaker 1    00:52:27    I love that, man. I, and I think kind of what I gleaned from that is, you know, like I think we talked about this earlier, right? That what we did yesterday, isn't that's really going to work in three or four days. If you're not constantly testing and evolving, you're going to get left behind much, sooner than later. Right? Uh, I, I actually love that thought process of, Hey, do what you gotta do for the employer, but there should be this test group that you want to try different things out. And to your point, no sale, there's going to get mad at you. If you, if you, Hey, here's what I did. And here's what it netted me out. Another 30 meeting, I'm exaggerating, obviously no leader is going to be like, why did you do that? We don't want those 30 meetings. Like that's not going to happen. So I think it's a great call out.  
Speaker 2    00:53:08    Yeah. I mean, activity breeds results, but you can't say that. And then the same breath say that there is, there is a such thing as bad activity. I don't believe that there is, if you're going outbound and reaching out and trying to connect in a unique way that you want to give a try, I see no wrong in that, but you got to make sure you're doing, and you've got to take the action to do  
Speaker 1    00:53:26    It without a doubt. Hey Ryan, how do people connect with the other? Learn more value, all that kind of fun stuff.  
Speaker 2    00:53:32    Yeah. Well you can find me on LinkedIn. You know, don't get offended by things that I, that I post. I think if anything, if you take something away from this podcast, I'm pretty good guy. I just like to be transparent, honest, and I have an opinion, but I also respect your, so find me on LinkedIn. Hit me up there in male. Um, jump in the comments. Let's talk, uh, my email address. I won't give you that, but just hit me up on, on LinkedIn. I don't wanna get put on a sequence, but if you, uh, if you hit me up on LinkedIn, man, I'm going to get back to you. You know, drop me a little voice message. If we're a first connection, uh, I'm on Instagram. I use it. Sometimes Ryan underscore CEO, underscore sales Jevity people sometimes send me some DMS and ask me for sales help. They're pretty simple, man. Just find me on LinkedIn dudes and dudettes.  
Speaker 1    00:54:13    Awesome. Yeah, we're going to put all of that in the show notes. So you can easily find Ryan on LinkedIn, Instagram, all this stuff that he just laid out. Right. And man, it was awesome having you all on today. Thanks so much for your time, brother.  
Speaker 2    00:54:26    Thank you. You're a great host. I really appreciate this opportunity.  
Speaker 0    00:54:30    Thank you for listening to the sales samurai podcast with your host, Sam Capra. Be sure you subscribe to our podcast and visit sales samurai.io and join the conversation. Access show notes and discover bonus content. <inaudible>. 

Ryan Lallier

Founder & CEO @ SalesGevity

Ryan is the founder/operator of SalesGevity which he created based on 20 + years of experience as an individual contributor while en route to VP Sales. Like most he had great years in sales, good years in sales, and bad years in sales. All the above helped create my playbook. Ryan’s experience gives him the street credit to offer sound, proven formulas for sales enablement. He’s hired, trained, and mentored well over 100 sales reps and have advised close to 1000.